In this episode of the Greg and Camille Baroni Center podcast, host Mike Derrios speaks with Soraya Correa, CEO of the National Industries for the Blind and former DHS Chief Procurement Officer, about the critical challenges facing the federal acquisition workforce, including historic attrition, heavy workloads, and the loss of experienced mentors.
She emphasizes the importance of leadership, strategic thinking, and industry engagement in procurement. Their conversation also covers the FAR overhaul, AI's role in acquisition, and strategies for attracting new talent for the federal workforce.
"What makes this job important is that we are sitting at the table helping deliver a mission that impacts the American people we serve."
— Soraya Correa, CEO of the National Industries for the Blind and former DHS Chief Procurement Officer
"I love this country. I love my government, and I want to be a part of always making it better and more efficient.”
— Soraya Correa, CEO of the National Industries for the Blind and former DHS Chief Procurement Officer
Episode Transcript
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Welcome to the Greg and Camille
Perrone Center podcast
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inside the business of Government
where policy meets practice.
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I'm your host, Mike Dario's,
pulling back the curtain on how
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government really buys what it needs,
from major systems to everyday
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mission essentials.
Produced by the Baroni Center at the
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George Mason University Costello
College of Business, here lively,
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candid conversations with the leaders
and practitioners shaping federal
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acquisition. Let's get started.
Hello to our listeners,
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and welcome back to the podcast.
Uh, today I am joined by the one
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and only Soraya Correia, uh,
chief Executive officer for the
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National Industries for the blind and
former chief procurement officer for
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the Department of Homeland Security.
Soraya, welcome to the podcast.
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Well, thank you, Mike, and thank
you for that lovely introduction.
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The one and only Soraya.
So before we get going with
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today's topic, um, why don't you
educate our audience a little
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bit about the mission of NIB?
Well, thank you, Mike. Thank you.
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And thank you again for having
me here today.
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So at National Industries for
the blind,
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we're one of two central non-profit
agencies that support the federal
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government's ability one program.
The ability one program is a program
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that's focused on using procurement
to create job opportunities for
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individuals who are blind or
have significant disabilities at
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national industries for the blind.
We focus on blind employment.
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We manufacture all forms of products.
In fact,
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primarily we manufacture products,
whether it's office products,
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janitorial, sanitation products,
tools, equipment that are used
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by the federal government on a
day to day basis to meet their
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mission objectives.
Um, the other thing that we do
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is we provide some services like
contract management support,
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near and dear to my heart,
but it's just a wonderful program.
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It's an opportunity to continue
to serve and help others.
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Um, it's an exciting opportunity.
And I invite you and others that
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don't know about national industries
for the blind to come visit us.
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We have about 100 nonprofit
agencies across the country,
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58 of which are producing companies.
In other words,
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they have manufacturing
facilities and provide services.
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And it's amazing to see the great
work that's done by individuals
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who are blind or low vision in
manufacturing products and meeting
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the needs of the federal government.
Definitely an exciting opportunity
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and I'm so glad I'm there.
That sounds like an amazing mission.
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And you know, you you did a
great job of highlighting the
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the work that the people do.
That's a perfect segue into what
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we're going to be talking about
today, which is workforce,
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specifically the federal
acquisition workforce.
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And we wanted to invite you on
to the podcast.
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Just given your tremendous
perspective on acquisition
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workforce issues in general,
and especially, I think at this
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point in time with so much change
happening in the landscape.
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Um, so I want to ask you a
question About, um, the fact that
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we have seen attrition, I think,
uh, you know, historic attrition,
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frankly, in this job series, the,
the 1102 job series contract
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specialist for those that are not
familiar, but I would offer, um,
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workforces broader than just that,
um, you know,
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not just the contract specialist
and the contracting officers.
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A lot of program managers have left,
a lot of cores have left.
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Um, and so with the federal
workforce experiencing, you know,
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significant departures and also
having hiring constraints, um,
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there's been some disruption.
What do you think has been lost,
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uh, through all of this in terms
of the acquisition workforce and
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what are the losses that are going
to be the hardest to recover?
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So that's a great question,
by the way, because we often
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focus on the headcount, right?
We think about the numbers of
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people that have gone.
I like to think about what
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actually have we lost.
What we've lost is a lot of
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experience, a lot of capability
to help and mentor others.
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Um, acquisition is something that
requires good business judgment.
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Anybody who understands the
profession, whether you're in
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the program management side,
the actual contracting side, or in
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one of the support organizations
like security, like HR, you know,
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that that are part of that CXO suite
that comes together to meet, uh,
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mission outcomes for an agency.
Um, what what's important is
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really the business judgment
that people are using,
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how they bring the team together,
how they work collaboratively to to
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bring good business solutions to
the fore to address mission need.
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And unfortunately,
that's what you're really losing.
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It's not the numbers of people.
It's the quality of the people.
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The people who really have been
around, have done things,
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have experienced, you know,
what the typical problems are
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and how to solve them.
Um,
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that doesn't mean that it's all bad.
I mean, it's good to bring some
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new breed of thinking, but you
still need some of that experience
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to counter some of that newness.
The other thing is,
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with the people that are leaving,
the people that are really
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experienced and mentor others.
As we're going through this process
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with the revolutionary Far overhaul,
you're going to need those folks.
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And I'll tell you why I always
point to this.
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I spent 40 years working under
the existing Federal Acquisition
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Regulation, and we got it all done
with the revolutionary Far overhaul.
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We have an opportunity to do
things differently, maybe do them
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better and more effectively.
You need people with experience
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to help guide that a little bit.
Again, I don't want to tell the
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new folks coming in what to do.
I want to guide them through the
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process,
tell them where the landmines are and
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how to navigate them, but cut them
loose to do great things with the
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flexibilities that are built in.
But that's my biggest concern,
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is that experience,
that good business judgment.
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Um, and, and that that ability
to teach others,
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to share with others that knowledge.
So that's what scares.
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Of course, head count matters, right?
Because the more work you got,
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the harder it gets to.
To do some of these things.
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But I'm more concerned about that
loss of experience and sound
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business judgment because we've
worked really hard to develop that.
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I know a DHS, you know, that I had
the procurement innovation Lab.
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That was my goal in life, right?
Get people critical thinking skills,
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strategic thinking,
bring the team together. Yeah. So.
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And you really did, uh, launch a,
um, gosh, an era of innovation.
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Uh, we're going to be talking to
to Trevor Wagner. Oh point.
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And so, yeah, you've you've
replicated that across government,
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which is fantastic. Um, yeah.
You know,
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I was talking to somebody yesterday,
actually about this very topic.
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And, and we were saying the same
thing about, you know, the fact that,
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yeah, you had some junior folks that,
you know, left last year because
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of the opportunity you had a lot
of senior folks leave, though,
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and and that was that was already
happening at a time when we knew
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generationally we were going to
see an exodus of people.
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So I think it's become a bit
exacerbated.
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Um, and who's left a train?
That's going to be the challenge.
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And it's the speed with which
they left. Right?
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Some people left abruptly.
There wasn't really time for
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transition, time for, if you will,
data dumps if you go, you know
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what I call them? Brain dumps.
Um,
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and and it's unfortunate because I
think this is a fantastic profession.
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And I think we need that, that those
people with that experience to also
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be out here talking about what
this profession really represents.
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A lot of people don't understand
what acquisition really is in
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federal government.
And what I was always fond of
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telling people was,
I get to do things that you are
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never going to do in industry.
I make billion dollar decisions.
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I affect mission outcomes.
I get right next to that mission
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and I get to help solve problems.
It's not the administrator.
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I never told anybody.
I wrote contracts,
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and whenever anybody knows I'm a
mission enabler, that's what we do.
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And losing that,
losing the people that that
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understand it and really have a
passion for it and can really explain
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it and bring in that new cadre
because I'm all for the turnover.
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I'm, you know, you remember me.
I was always pushing, you know,
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intern programs and, you know,
detail opportunities and things
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like that so that people could
get maximize their experience and
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bring a continuous succession in,
if you will.
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We've lost some of those people
that can really talk passionately
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about what it means to serve in the
federal government and to work in
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this profession and that, you know,
to me, that pains me, right?
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That's why I'm still out here talking
about it. I know I'm an old relic.
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Most people don't want to hear
from me, but I'm still passionate
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about this, I really am. Yeah.
No. And I would disagree.
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I think a lot of people still
want to hear your voice.
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That's why you're you're on this
podcast with this. Uh, yeah.
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You know, you make a great point that
the mentorship is just as important
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as the training. Yes, it really is.
You were mentioning the the RFO.
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Um,
let's talk about that a little bit.
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So, uh, it's going to introduce,
uh, discretion. Right.
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Which, which requires a unique skill
set in and of itself to exercise.
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Given that you've you've had this
much attrition, how do you think
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agencies are going to navigate that?
How do you get contracting
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professionals to to get comfortable
exercising discretion in this,
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in this space that's highly
regulated, regulated.
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Um, without having people to
kind of help coach them up.
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Therein lies the question of
leadership.
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And I've always believed that I
believe, um,
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the contracting professionals,
they set out to do a great job.
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They want to abide by the rules, but
they also want to make good deals.
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They want to make sure that
they're meeting the goals of the
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organization, uh, meeting the mission
objectives of their Customers
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supporting their customers properly.
It's very rare that you run into a
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CEO that isn't thinking that way.
The question is leadership.
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You're going to ask people to
exercise good business judgment.
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You're going to ask them to take
risks to to mitigate risk,
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to think about the risks.
To be flexible, to be innovative.
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That requires strong leadership,
that requires leadership that really
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understands the fundamentals of
what you're asking people to do
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and supports people in doing that.
And that means accepting that things
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are going to be done differently,
not the way you're used to seeing
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them as a leader, that you may have
to accept some failures along the
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way and support your people when
those failures happen, because
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those failures aren't going to
happen because of poor performance.
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They're going to happen because of
circumstances beyond their control.
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The things that we don't know,
you know, when you experiment, you're
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going to learn a few new things.
What I always used to say to the
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staff was,
ask most successful people.
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They will tell you they have failed
more than once in their lives,
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but they recovered.
And it takes strong leadership to be
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able to do that, to accept that and
to be able to explain it to others.
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And that's my concern with the RFL.
I love what we've done with the RFL.
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The things that I've read,
I know several of the people that
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are working on that document,
very proud of their great work.
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The questions going to be,
are we going to have the right
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leadership in place to help
implement that RFL to help navigate
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the workforce through the change
and do it effectively? Right?
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Um, when the RFO is kind of like what
I was doing with the Procurement
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Innovation Lab, except that I was
working within the parameters of
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what existed within the FA.
But the license that I gave to
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folks was,
let's go talk to the people that bang
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on the keyboard every day, right.
The person who does the day to
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day job and ask them,
how do we do this differently?
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How do we do this better?
If you if you could do this
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without any constraints,
how would you go about doing it?
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And then you got to support them.
And that's what we were doing through
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the Procurement Innovation Lab.
That's what I did.
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Stand with my folks and say, yeah,
we're going to give it a shot.
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And if it doesn't work out,
well, that's on me.
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And if it works out well,
you get to take all the credit.
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And that's important.
People need to know that their
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leadership is supporting them.
So when I think about the
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revolutionary FA overhaul,
I'm excited by the opportunity
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that it brings, I really am.
I think it's good everything
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that they've done,
but I fear that sometimes leaders
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might lean back into a more risk
averse approach because we still
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have the protest out there.
We still have the front page of the
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post, as we used to like to joke
around. Right. Um, now you have.
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The place you do not want to be be.
Exactly. Now you have social media.
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To add to that, right?
But you have all these factors that
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come up and instill fear in people,
and it takes strong leaders to say,
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no, we're not.
We're going to we're not going
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to work out of fear.
We're going to focus on doing the
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right thing for the right reasons,
and we'll help people understand
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what we did and why we did it. Yeah.
You know, you mentioned
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explaining it to others.
Let's talk about the impacts of
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acquisition, workforce shortages,
because, you know, that may not
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necessarily be apparent to,
you know, the everyday person that
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just knows that the government,
uh, spends taxpayer dollars or to,
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you know, in some cases, the
companies that are doing the work.
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Um, so let's talk a little bit
about the impacts.
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You know, I'm sure you're aware Gao
found that heavy workloads, you know,
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were, um, a contributing factor,
you know, to, uh, to challenges,
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uh, at DHS and I would offer.
That's probably everywhere.
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Exactly. Um, but you know what?
What do those workforce, uh, or
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workload pressures, um, do in terms
of affecting the quality of the work?
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Um, how does it affect the
ability to, you know,
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run effective competitions to
introduce innovation? To your point?
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Um, you know,
let's talk a little bit about the
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impacts of the shortages. Sure, sure.
When you have a heavy workload,
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you're focused on getting the
job done.
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And so you're trying to process
transactions much faster,
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and you're thinking of the world in
the form of transactions. Right.
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You're thinking, I have this
requisition. I got to get it done.
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I got to get something awarded.
So you start to lean into what
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you already know,
not what you could be doing. Right.
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You'll lean right back into.
This is how I've always done it.
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And that's what we're really
trying to break with the RFP.
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We're trying to break the this
is how I've always done it.
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Let's come up with the right
solution for the procurement.
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And certainly you're not going to,
you know,
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think 100 when you're processing,
I don't know, 50 transactions.
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You're not going to think of
everything in a very strategic way,
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but you're going to take the
most important procurement and
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hopefully spend the time to do
some good market research,
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to talk to industry, to learn what
the customer's requirements are,
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perhaps to go sit with a customer
with industry. Novel concept.
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To have conversations, right?
To really understand, I think it's a
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four letter word. It's called plan.
I tend to throw that one out
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there all the time, but really,
I think that that important
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upfront work that has to be done
to think through strategically,
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how are we going to do that?
That's what gets lost and and it
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suffers across the board.
Like I said, smaller transactions,
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the easy routine stuff.
That's not what I'm talking about.
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I'm talking about those important
contracts, the contract that maybe
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didn't go well the last time,
the contract where you weren't
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happy with the vendor before,
and now you want to pick a better
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vendor or the contract that while it
may not have a large dollar value,
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it has a huge mission impact.
Absolutely, because we always think
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about the high dollar ones, but we
don't think about the small ones.
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Those low dollar ones can
sometimes be important, if not
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more important than the big ones.
Exactly. And so that's what we lose.
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We lose that ability to really use
that good judgment that they're
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asking us to use that good business
judgment because we're pressured
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by the workload. And it's hard.
Look, I've been there.
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I lived that life.
I came up as a contracting
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professional from contract
specialist all the way up to
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contracting officer to become a CPO.
And I still remember those days
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when I was staring at a stack of
requisitions on my desk,
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and I had to decide, how could I
process those as quickly as possible?
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By the end of the year, and if I may
throw a little pearly nugget out
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there, we have a Congress that can't
give us a budget before mid-year.
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So that adds to the pressure and
the workload.
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And so we have to we have to
figure out how we're going to
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manage that workload.
And I got to tell you, um,
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one of the things I'm proud of,
of this profession that in 40 plus
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years that I spent in it and even
now, um, we never fail the mission.
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We never fail.
People need to think about that.
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But are we doing the best job?
You know,
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everybody likes to criticize, um,
the contracting professionals and
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sometimes even our program managers,
we get criticized.
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Well, people need to think about
the workload that we impose on
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these folks and the and the
limits that we put on them.
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One of them being you don't know
what your budget's going to be
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until halfway through the year,
and now you've got it's crunch
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time and we got to get it done.
And what we give up,
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and it's something that has always
been near and dear to my heart,
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is that engagement with industry.
I believe that is the most essential
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thing that we do in our profession,
that the more that we can collaborate
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with industry, really understand
what's out there, what's the market,
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what is the capability that's out
there and how we can tap that and
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bring it in and help us achieve
the mission success that we seek.
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When we give that up, we're giving up
great solutions. I totally agree.
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And efficiency, by the way.
And by the way, I've always said
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the more we do upfront, the easier
it becomes. That's exactly. Right.
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It really. Does. Right. Yeah.
So so much we can unpack there. Yeah.
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I you know, I, I can't agree
with you more about, you know,
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the fact that the the engagement
with industry, which is so critical.
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Um, it's it's going to take a hit
because, again, I was chatting with
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somebody recently about, well,
you know, why don't contracting
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officers pick up the phone.
You know, and my my response
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back was I you have no idea what
the workload is. Yeah.
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Um, you know, obviously, you know,
you've got some folks that are just
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a little risk averse, you know,
and a little, you know. Yeah.
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Uh, and there's always been that in
the, in the, in the, in the work.
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Uh, if I, if I talk to one company,
I can't talk to all, you know,
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you know, it's always that.
But that one of the things that
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I did when I was at DHS,
I had the opportunity to go and
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visit with folks who were taking
their program management classes,
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especially the program managers,
but also CEOs.
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But one of the things I used to tell
folks, I'll give you a hundred bucks
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if you can show me where in the far.
It says that if I talk to one,
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I must talk to the other,
because it. Doesn't. Say that.
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What it says is you can't give
an unfair competitive advantage.
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So what I used to do,
the advice I used to give people
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and you know, it's a little crazy.
I used to drive the lawyers crazy
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with this, but I used to say,
if you accidentally tell a vendor
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something, publish it and say,
that's it, publish it, that's it.
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Because they just have to know
that the information is out there.
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You just have to give that
information to everybody.
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Um, we've created a culture of
risk aversion, a fear of saying
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something wrong. You know what?
I've never sat in a room with
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industry where they were taking
such copious notes that they
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were prepared to quote me.
In fact, industry loves it when
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you talk to them.
They really appreciate it because
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they want to understand the problem.
They want to know what you're
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looking for.
They want to build you the next,
329
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you know, big thing that you want.
And they also want to make a
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smart business decision about,
do I really even want to do this?
331
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Right. That's that's exactly it.
Is this the right one for me to
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go after? Exactly, exactly. Yeah.
I love that you talked about,
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you know, the strategic aspect
of the of the the work and the
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decision making that goes into that.
You know, it's the work is never
335
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or should never be treated as
just transactional. Exactly.
336
00:19:50.310 --> 00:19:55.030
Um, but oftentimes I think our,
our folks fall into that, uh, because
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of how crushing the volume is.
Um, it can be easy to just go into,
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well, I've got these 20,
I've got to move through and fast,
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00:20:02.990 --> 00:20:05.950
and I don't have time to,
you know, do the due diligence
340
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with the companies, uh,
really craft a unique, you know,
341
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acquisition strategy that is,
that is tailored for this one.
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And so things become cookie cutter.
I mean, there's, there's so many
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I think, uh, effects of the,
the pressure that's on the workforce.
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But that's that balancing of
understanding the mission. Yeah.
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One of the things that I, um,
that I always emphasize, what's the
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mission you're serving your customer.
Go talk to that customer,
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identify what their priorities are
and understand what's complex to
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them and what's routine to them,
because then that helps you sort
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that priority.
And we can focus on those things
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that are really mission essential
and say, these are routine.
351
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We're going to do these as
quickly as we can.
352
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We're going to put some energy
up behind these and put some
353
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thought into these. Yeah.
And going back to, you know, the
354
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the topic overall about, you know,
the acquisition workforce shortages.
355
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Now that that's going to be missing,
that's. Going to become. Harder.
356
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That mentorship of a senior person
coaching you know somebody that's
357
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that's newer into the field up
and helping them to understand
358
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how to prioritize their workload.
You know, helping them to understand
359
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how to engage with the program office
customer effectively. You know, and.
360
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Again, the other support staff,
right.
361
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One of the things that I thought
we did very effectively at DHS,
362
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at least while I was there, and I
and I think it still goes on now,
363
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our CXO suite was very united.
In other words, when I went in to,
364
00:21:35.970 --> 00:21:39.670
to to talk to a customer about a
particular procurement, if there
365
00:21:39.670 --> 00:21:43.910
was an IT issue associated with it,
or an HR element or a security
366
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element I brought in my counterparts,
I would immediately pick up the
367
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phone and call and say, hey,
we're talking about this and it's
368
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going to have an impact on you.
And we would come together to
369
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meet with those customers that
that's lost.
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If you don't have somebody
teaching people to think that way,
371
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to think in that bigger strategic
approach that says we are one
372
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element of the group of people
that enable this mission. Right.
373
00:22:07.390 --> 00:22:11.190
And you need to know how to bring
your counterparts in. Yeah, yeah.
374
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The critical thinking skills are
just so, so important in this field.
375
00:22:15.070 --> 00:22:18.950
And they don't always come naturally.
You know, to somebody who may be,
376
00:22:18.990 --> 00:22:22.150
you know, very analytical in
nature but needs to be, you know,
377
00:22:22.190 --> 00:22:26.270
brought along, so to speak.
And, you know, the behavior kind of
378
00:22:26.310 --> 00:22:29.390
needs to be demonstrated for them.
Well, you know, go ahead. I'm sorry.
379
00:22:29.390 --> 00:22:32.030
I was going to say, and this is
where leadership matters. Yeah.
380
00:22:32.070 --> 00:22:35.750
Because leadership can look at
their staff and assess and team
381
00:22:35.750 --> 00:22:37.590
people together.
In other words,
382
00:22:37.620 --> 00:22:40.260
it's not all the mentoring
doesn't come from the leader.
383
00:22:40.300 --> 00:22:42.020
You know, the person that's
running the organization.
384
00:22:42.020 --> 00:22:44.260
Some of it comes from teaming
people together.
385
00:22:44.300 --> 00:22:49.460
There were many times that I would
be talking to a particular senior
386
00:22:49.460 --> 00:22:53.340
individual and say, you know,
on your team, I noticed that
387
00:22:53.340 --> 00:22:57.980
this person doesn't seem to do X
or doesn't seem to understand X,
388
00:22:58.020 --> 00:23:01.020
you should talk to them, right?
So sometimes that's what you
389
00:23:01.020 --> 00:23:04.220
need is that marrying of people
that bringing people together.
390
00:23:04.220 --> 00:23:07.460
And that's one of the things
that we do as leaders. Yeah.
391
00:23:07.660 --> 00:23:11.020
So you gave me a perfect segue.
You mentioned people several times.
392
00:23:11.060 --> 00:23:15.220
Mhm. That's my favorite topic. Yeah.
I think that um,
393
00:23:15.340 --> 00:23:19.580
as we know AI is here.
And so that's another thing that
394
00:23:19.580 --> 00:23:25.780
plays into this.
Um, you need the leaders to help the
395
00:23:25.780 --> 00:23:29.580
organization get comfortable with the
introduction of this technology.
396
00:23:29.780 --> 00:23:32.540
Because I think, frankly,
there's there's absolutely an
397
00:23:32.540 --> 00:23:36.540
opportunity to to leverage this.
Yeah. Tremendous upside.
398
00:23:36.960 --> 00:23:42.040
Um, but you can't just throw it at
the workforce that has atrophied a
399
00:23:42.040 --> 00:23:46.160
little bit and expect them to just
readily adopt it and understand
400
00:23:46.160 --> 00:23:51.600
how to do that and become prompt
engineers, uh, overnight. Um, yeah.
401
00:23:51.600 --> 00:23:56.800
So I think that, uh,
the emphasis on people needs to
402
00:23:56.840 --> 00:24:00.200
come back. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
I, um, so I'm a huge you know,
403
00:24:00.240 --> 00:24:02.400
I'm a huge fan of technology.
I, you know,
404
00:24:02.440 --> 00:24:06.800
I live and breathe it and I love it.
And I had great partnerships with
405
00:24:06.800 --> 00:24:11.640
my CIOs for that reason, not only
because we were buying technology,
406
00:24:11.640 --> 00:24:15.880
but also because I was introducing
technology into our world and trying
407
00:24:15.880 --> 00:24:20.120
to find effective ways to use it to
support the work staff and what I,
408
00:24:20.160 --> 00:24:22.680
what I, what I like to say is
there are a lot of people out
409
00:24:22.680 --> 00:24:26.120
there that seem to think that AI
can bring you the answer, right?
410
00:24:26.120 --> 00:24:29.120
You can just give it a lot of data
and it'll give you the answer.
411
00:24:29.160 --> 00:24:32.760
Let me let me share with you a
couple of examples where I've had
412
00:24:32.760 --> 00:24:37.870
to teach AI the right answer.
Um, all kidding aside, um,
413
00:24:37.870 --> 00:24:41.070
where I've vetted information,
I said bring me back.
414
00:24:41.110 --> 00:24:46.150
You know, um, I don't know who
buys XYZ. Pick a product. Right.
415
00:24:46.190 --> 00:24:51.110
And it came back and it missed DHS.
And I went, oopsie.
416
00:24:51.430 --> 00:24:54.550
You missed DHS. Right.
And they came back and said,
417
00:24:54.550 --> 00:24:58.630
you're right, I missed DHS.
Or I asked you to give me
418
00:24:58.630 --> 00:25:02.230
references from the far regarding,
I don't know, domestic sourcing,
419
00:25:02.430 --> 00:25:07.590
and it missed a few key references.
My point is this you will need
420
00:25:07.630 --> 00:25:12.390
that person with the knowledge and
the skills to read through the
421
00:25:12.390 --> 00:25:17.390
solution or the information that
AI brings you back. Absolutely.
422
00:25:17.430 --> 00:25:21.270
To make sure it's accurate. Yeah.
Because the machine doesn't know
423
00:25:21.270 --> 00:25:23.710
where it has to learn. Right.
It still has to learn.
424
00:25:23.710 --> 00:25:26.190
And you know what?
It's like you and me.
425
00:25:26.270 --> 00:25:29.150
No matter how much we teach it,
we're not going to know it all.
426
00:25:29.470 --> 00:25:32.230
I think about that.
It's just it can react faster than
427
00:25:32.270 --> 00:25:34.510
you and I. Right when it asked me.
You know, these days,
428
00:25:34.530 --> 00:25:37.450
especially as I'm getting older,
when you ask me what far apart
429
00:25:37.490 --> 00:25:40.530
talks about blah blah blah, I go.
Let me think about that, right?
430
00:25:40.570 --> 00:25:43.570
It takes me a little bit longer
to find it, but. And so it turns.
431
00:25:43.610 --> 00:25:46.530
It gives you information back
quickly, but you have to read it.
432
00:25:46.570 --> 00:25:50.730
And by the way, I advise anybody
using AI read a word for word. Yeah.
433
00:25:50.730 --> 00:25:54.570
Oh absolutely. You will find errors.
But is it a useful tool.
434
00:25:54.610 --> 00:25:58.330
Can it make you more efficient.
Can it help you streamline processes?
435
00:25:58.370 --> 00:26:01.010
Of course it can.
And wherever we can use it
436
00:26:01.010 --> 00:26:04.890
effectively I say let's go for it.
What we have to though,
437
00:26:04.890 --> 00:26:09.010
understand is the risks. Yeah.
What you give it. You know what.
438
00:26:09.010 --> 00:26:11.810
What data can you feed it and
what data you should feed it.
439
00:26:11.970 --> 00:26:14.890
And then also how you use it and
where you use it in the process.
440
00:26:15.050 --> 00:26:18.610
But I am a huge fan.
Technology is the best thing
441
00:26:18.610 --> 00:26:21.090
that can happen.
I think it can make us a heck of
442
00:26:21.090 --> 00:26:23.610
a lot more efficient and
effective in doing the job.
443
00:26:23.610 --> 00:26:27.010
I think of people like cost and price
analysts. Oh yeah. Think about it.
444
00:26:27.010 --> 00:26:30.610
The data that they can get in their
hands to support the information,
445
00:26:30.650 --> 00:26:34.510
helping us do market research, Uh,
helping us understand the industry.
446
00:26:34.510 --> 00:26:36.110
There are people that are scared,
that industry, you know,
447
00:26:36.150 --> 00:26:40.070
is using it to write proposals. Okay.
How did you know who was writing
448
00:26:40.070 --> 00:26:42.190
the proposal before?
That's the question that was asked.
449
00:26:42.310 --> 00:26:43.990
The question is that who writes
the proposal?
450
00:26:44.030 --> 00:26:46.710
How can I evaluate that proposal?
What do I know?
451
00:26:46.750 --> 00:26:50.070
What do I understand right?
So I'm a huge fan of the technology.
452
00:26:50.070 --> 00:26:54.270
I think it's here to stay.
And I always encourage the bringing
453
00:26:54.270 --> 00:26:58.390
in of the the CIO organization
to help you use it effectively,
454
00:26:58.390 --> 00:27:02.110
to help you understand it,
help you develop it and adapt it
455
00:27:02.110 --> 00:27:03.550
to your environment.
And believe you me,
456
00:27:03.550 --> 00:27:06.430
there are some great people out
there that that do that. Absolutely.
457
00:27:06.430 --> 00:27:10.110
Yeah, yeah, I think there's got
to be an equal investment in in
458
00:27:10.150 --> 00:27:13.430
the acquisition workforce and
the technology for, for for
459
00:27:13.430 --> 00:27:17.510
government to really, you know,
see the benefits of its use. Yeah.
460
00:27:17.550 --> 00:27:20.910
So so let's talk a little bit
about the future. Yes.
461
00:27:21.070 --> 00:27:27.110
Um, so there might be some folks
that are uncertain about whether or
462
00:27:27.110 --> 00:27:31.710
not they want to explore a career,
uh, with the government.
463
00:27:31.710 --> 00:27:37.180
Um, And you mentioned early on in
the episode here that a lot of
464
00:27:37.180 --> 00:27:41.980
people just don't understand what
government contracting is in general.
465
00:27:41.980 --> 00:27:47.460
So what do you think that leaders
need to be doing to try to attract
466
00:27:47.460 --> 00:27:50.180
that workforce in the future?
They need to do something.
467
00:27:50.420 --> 00:27:53.740
I used to do all the time marketing.
You get out there and you sell
468
00:27:53.740 --> 00:27:58.540
the profession.
I, I always made it a point to try
469
00:27:58.580 --> 00:28:01.820
to find ways to recruit people,
to talk to people about what this
470
00:28:01.820 --> 00:28:06.780
profession was really about, why I
was in it and why I stayed in it.
471
00:28:06.820 --> 00:28:10.420
I was in it for 40 years and I had
plenty of opportunity to leave.
472
00:28:10.460 --> 00:28:13.100
Come back, you know, this kind.
But I kept sticking with it,
473
00:28:13.100 --> 00:28:16.260
and it was because of the
excitement of fulfilling a mission.
474
00:28:16.300 --> 00:28:19.380
I mean, I always I always think
back to when we stood up the
475
00:28:19.380 --> 00:28:22.100
Department of Homeland Security,
I was working for Immigration
476
00:28:22.100 --> 00:28:24.980
and Naturalization Service,
and I was when I had made one of
477
00:28:24.980 --> 00:28:27.300
my crazy career moves,
and I moved over into it,
478
00:28:27.300 --> 00:28:30.940
and I spent many years that. Right.
And then we stood up the
479
00:28:30.940 --> 00:28:34.800
Department of Homeland Security.
I actually had an opportunity to
480
00:28:34.840 --> 00:28:37.040
leave INS and go work at another
federal agency,
481
00:28:37.040 --> 00:28:40.720
but I thought to myself, wow,
I could be at the at the ground
482
00:28:40.720 --> 00:28:44.360
level of standing up an agency.
Be a part of building something,
483
00:28:44.400 --> 00:28:46.440
right?
These are the opportunities you
484
00:28:46.440 --> 00:28:48.520
get in government.
And we have to talk about those
485
00:28:48.520 --> 00:28:53.000
things, and we have to talk about
more than the transaction, right?
486
00:28:53.040 --> 00:28:57.200
Yes, we work in contracting,
we write contracts, we issue purchase
487
00:28:57.200 --> 00:29:00.120
orders and all that good, fun stuff.
That's not what makes this job
488
00:29:00.120 --> 00:29:02.680
important.
What makes this job important is that
489
00:29:02.680 --> 00:29:08.400
we are sitting at the table helping
deliver a mission, a mission that
490
00:29:08.400 --> 00:29:13.440
impacts the American people we serve.
That is the reason I was there
491
00:29:13.480 --> 00:29:17.120
every day that I came in.
And even today when I when I
492
00:29:17.120 --> 00:29:21.160
talk to CEOs, I miss it.
I still miss it because it's such an
493
00:29:21.160 --> 00:29:24.720
impactful mission that we serve.
Probably why I'm an astronaut.
494
00:29:24.720 --> 00:29:27.040
Industries for the blind because
it's an impactful mission.
495
00:29:27.240 --> 00:29:30.360
I'm all about the mission,
and I'm all about the service to
496
00:29:30.360 --> 00:29:34.500
the American people.
And so when we go out there and talk.
497
00:29:34.540 --> 00:29:39.100
About this profession, we need
to be as passionate as possible,
498
00:29:39.100 --> 00:29:43.020
as inspiring. As possible.
And we need to really talk about
499
00:29:43.020 --> 00:29:47.660
fundamentally what we're doing here.
The expertise that you bring, how you
500
00:29:47.660 --> 00:29:51.700
impact mission and why you're there.
And I like talking about the things
501
00:29:51.700 --> 00:29:55.300
that you're going to see and do
that you will never get a chance
502
00:29:55.300 --> 00:29:59.060
to do in other jobs. Absolutely.
The example I always give is when I
503
00:29:59.060 --> 00:30:02.820
started my career very early on,
when I was working for Navy,
504
00:30:02.820 --> 00:30:06.180
I worked on the Space Shuttle
Challenger salvage operation because
505
00:30:06.180 --> 00:30:10.260
I worked for Navy Diving and Salvage.
Who knew that years later I
506
00:30:10.260 --> 00:30:13.420
would work for NASA helping
build the space station?
507
00:30:13.420 --> 00:30:17.180
Who knew that I would work for a
Department of Homeland Security and
508
00:30:17.180 --> 00:30:20.820
that when Hurricane Maria hit Puerto
Rico, my family's from Puerto Rico,
509
00:30:20.860 --> 00:30:24.100
that I would have time,
I would I would spend time there
510
00:30:24.140 --> 00:30:27.380
helping that I these are the
things that I think about.
511
00:30:27.380 --> 00:30:31.250
And I get choked up when I think
about it because where else do you
512
00:30:31.250 --> 00:30:33.850
get an opportunity to do these
things right and to help others?
513
00:30:33.890 --> 00:30:37.450
And when I think about my job today,
right, well, every time that I walk
514
00:30:37.450 --> 00:30:42.090
through a manufacturing facility
or I talk to employees in these
515
00:30:42.090 --> 00:30:46.290
manufacturing facilities and I hear
their story and why they're there and
516
00:30:46.290 --> 00:30:51.290
why they they're so passionate about
helping serve the federal government
517
00:30:51.290 --> 00:30:55.290
in the United States. Yeah.
So we have to be proud of our
518
00:30:55.290 --> 00:30:57.690
government. It doesn't make mistakes.
Of course it does.
519
00:30:57.690 --> 00:31:00.290
But we have to be proud of it.
I love this country.
520
00:31:00.290 --> 00:31:03.490
I love my government,
and I want to be a part of always
521
00:31:03.490 --> 00:31:07.890
making it better and more efficient.
And so that's what we need to sell.
522
00:31:07.970 --> 00:31:10.410
That's what we need to market.
Right. I totally. Agree.
523
00:31:10.450 --> 00:31:12.810
You know, and we don't do that.
We don't do that very well.
524
00:31:12.850 --> 00:31:16.770
Right. I think you're right.
I think that, um, that that marketing
525
00:31:16.770 --> 00:31:19.450
element has got to be brought
into the recruitment process.
526
00:31:19.610 --> 00:31:23.810
And it has to be, I think,
going forward, a more deliberate
527
00:31:23.810 --> 00:31:28.210
recruitment process. Yes.
Um, I love your point about, uh,
528
00:31:28.230 --> 00:31:33.270
exposing people to to the mission,
especially contracting professionals
529
00:31:33.270 --> 00:31:37.190
that don't always understand how
their work translates to those
530
00:31:37.230 --> 00:31:39.430
those mission outcomes.
I always tried to make that
531
00:31:39.430 --> 00:31:42.150
connection for them.
Yeah, I used to tell folks every
532
00:31:42.150 --> 00:31:45.190
morning I would get up as much
as I didn't like coming into the
533
00:31:45.190 --> 00:31:48.310
office early, but I always turned
on my TV and watched the news.
534
00:31:48.350 --> 00:31:50.830
Yeah, we're always.
Because you can see it. You can. See.
535
00:31:50.830 --> 00:31:54.230
The impacts of your work. Exactly.
Why don't we have a Hurricane
536
00:31:54.230 --> 00:31:56.990
Bertha floating around out here?
Yeah. That's mission. That's it.
537
00:31:57.030 --> 00:31:58.670
That's mission.
And it's a whole bunch of people.
538
00:31:58.670 --> 00:32:02.910
It's not just FEMA.
Yeah, it's going to be Coast Guard.
539
00:32:02.990 --> 00:32:05.070
It's going to be CBP.
Because what a lot of people don't
540
00:32:05.070 --> 00:32:08.670
understand, the federal government
joins forces to solve problems.
541
00:32:08.710 --> 00:32:11.070
Absolutely, yes.
And we join forces with state
542
00:32:11.070 --> 00:32:13.750
and local to help solve problems
and even with industry.
543
00:32:13.750 --> 00:32:16.790
So we we got to sell that.
We got to tell people about that.
544
00:32:16.790 --> 00:32:20.230
And we got to get to people not
just in college.
545
00:32:20.310 --> 00:32:22.350
We gotta get to people in high
school. Absolutely.
546
00:32:22.390 --> 00:32:26.910
In high school. Start there.
Right. Yeah. Sell what we do.
547
00:32:26.950 --> 00:32:31.890
Talk about the missions we serve,
bring people in to really talk about
548
00:32:31.890 --> 00:32:35.530
where these careers can take you.
I mean, this little girl from the
549
00:32:35.810 --> 00:32:39.690
the Bronx, uh, who moved here
when she was nine years old and
550
00:32:39.690 --> 00:32:42.410
my father did work in government,
and he encouraged me.
551
00:32:42.410 --> 00:32:45.330
But I took a job as a clerk type
because that's all it was.
552
00:32:45.330 --> 00:32:48.450
It was just a job.
And it turned into a career that
553
00:32:48.450 --> 00:32:50.210
led me to be the chief
procurement officer of the
554
00:32:50.210 --> 00:32:54.010
Department of Homeland Security.
That led me to then retire
555
00:32:54.010 --> 00:32:56.570
because I said, you know,
I'm getting old school here now.
556
00:32:56.610 --> 00:33:01.610
Um, and come out into the private
world and come into yet another
557
00:33:01.610 --> 00:33:06.050
mission focused area that serves our
government but serves the American
558
00:33:06.050 --> 00:33:10.610
people. This is what it's all about.
It really is. It really is. Yeah.
559
00:33:10.650 --> 00:33:17.170
You you you gave me the perfect
segue, I think also to to start to
560
00:33:17.210 --> 00:33:22.610
move into closing out our time here.
Um, you talked about, you know,
561
00:33:22.650 --> 00:33:28.320
getting in early and talking to
two people about the field.
562
00:33:28.560 --> 00:33:30.760
Um, you know,
that's something that we're trying
563
00:33:30.760 --> 00:33:34.160
to do here at George Mason.
Uh, we we have campuses with
564
00:33:34.160 --> 00:33:38.640
40,000 brilliant minds on them.
Uh, and we we're trying to educate
565
00:33:38.640 --> 00:33:43.800
them about, uh, this unique world
of work, uh, that is tied to, uh,
566
00:33:43.800 --> 00:33:48.240
an $800 billion industry sector.
Um, a lot of career opportunities,
567
00:33:48.240 --> 00:33:52.040
because the government is always
going to need to partner with
568
00:33:52.040 --> 00:33:56.520
industry to get its mission done.
So, um, so, yeah, I love what
569
00:33:56.520 --> 00:33:59.720
you I love what you said there.
And I think leaders are going to have
570
00:33:59.720 --> 00:34:05.640
to start much earlier and think very
creatively and deliberately about how
571
00:34:05.640 --> 00:34:10.080
they want to recruit and not just
say, go to this website and, uh,
572
00:34:10.080 --> 00:34:14.840
and throw your, your name in the hat,
expose people to the mission before
573
00:34:14.840 --> 00:34:17.280
the job announcement is out. Exactly.
So if I can give you a couple of
574
00:34:17.280 --> 00:34:21.400
examples, whenever I went out and
spoke at industry associations
575
00:34:21.400 --> 00:34:26.020
or to industry groups.
Um, one of my favorite CIOs.
576
00:34:26.340 --> 00:34:28.460
Uh, I think you you know who I'm
talking about.
577
00:34:28.500 --> 00:34:31.020
You'll know who I'm talking about.
We used to always remind people.
578
00:34:31.540 --> 00:34:33.820
Have you ever tried working for
the federal grant? This is.
579
00:34:33.820 --> 00:34:36.460
I'm like, giving a speech.
And at the end of it, I go.
580
00:34:36.500 --> 00:34:39.460
And if you're interested,
we're always looking for really
581
00:34:39.460 --> 00:34:42.260
good people. Yeah.
Come talk to me about federal
582
00:34:42.260 --> 00:34:46.060
service. Give it a try.
That's called marketing. Absolutely.
583
00:34:46.100 --> 00:34:49.500
And people would come and talk to me,
and I hired quite a few people
584
00:34:49.500 --> 00:34:52.380
from industry and brought them in.
But the other thing that I did was
585
00:34:52.380 --> 00:34:57.100
I actually staged opportunities
for people to learn about the
586
00:34:57.100 --> 00:34:59.860
DHS acquisition community.
I think you you absolutely.
587
00:34:59.900 --> 00:35:01.980
You supported me on a couple of
them where I brought the heads
588
00:35:01.980 --> 00:35:03.900
of contracting from the
different components,
589
00:35:03.900 --> 00:35:07.740
and we told people what we did. Yeah.
And I was recruiting other
590
00:35:07.740 --> 00:35:09.860
federal employees. Yes.
I was stealing them from other
591
00:35:09.860 --> 00:35:11.540
agencies because, you know,
it's fair game.
592
00:35:11.540 --> 00:35:15.380
It's called fair game. That's right.
But my point was educate people on
593
00:35:15.380 --> 00:35:18.860
what the missions are, what the
work is, and why it's fun to work
594
00:35:18.860 --> 00:35:22.300
in a particular place or to learn
something new or to try something
595
00:35:22.300 --> 00:35:24.520
different. And you know what?
And if you didn't want to come
596
00:35:24.560 --> 00:35:27.320
work for me, at least I
developed a partner. Absolutely.
597
00:35:27.360 --> 00:35:32.440
Network, right? So. So, yeah.
So I, I think that we have to do
598
00:35:32.440 --> 00:35:34.920
a better job of that.
I think that leaders have to do a
599
00:35:34.920 --> 00:35:39.120
better job of inviting people into
the profession, both on the industry
600
00:35:39.120 --> 00:35:42.760
and government side. I agree. Yes.
And I think we need that
601
00:35:42.760 --> 00:35:46.040
revolving door, by the way,
going from industry to government,
602
00:35:46.040 --> 00:35:48.680
government to industry,
whether working at the state,
603
00:35:48.680 --> 00:35:52.400
local or federal level.
It all applies. It really does.
604
00:35:52.440 --> 00:35:56.520
And you learn so much. It does. Yeah.
Uh, somebody that I mentored,
605
00:35:56.520 --> 00:36:00.760
uh, back at TSA a long,
long time ago, is now working.
606
00:36:00.880 --> 00:36:07.080
I believe he's the deputy chief
procurement officer for a state GSA.
607
00:36:07.120 --> 00:36:10.120
Yeah. Yeah. And I was just.
I was so proud to see that, like, oh,
608
00:36:10.200 --> 00:36:15.000
you know, you can you can demonstrate
impact in a variety of places.
609
00:36:15.360 --> 00:36:19.080
And it's an ecosystem.
I loved your point about the when we
610
00:36:19.080 --> 00:36:21.840
think about at the Perrone Center,
the acquisition workforce,
611
00:36:21.840 --> 00:36:23.790
we absolutely think about it on
both sides.
612
00:36:23.830 --> 00:36:26.830
It's not just we spent a lot of time
today talking about government,
613
00:36:26.830 --> 00:36:30.430
but, um, industry.
Yeah, they are a huge part of
614
00:36:30.430 --> 00:36:33.910
our workforce. Exactly.
And we want to see we want to
615
00:36:33.910 --> 00:36:37.350
see opportunities there as well.
So so the Brody Center,
616
00:36:37.350 --> 00:36:42.030
as you know, Soraya, is really in
a unique position to try to serve
617
00:36:42.030 --> 00:36:46.510
as a bridge between government,
industry and academia.
618
00:36:46.990 --> 00:36:51.670
Uh, and, uh, in conjunction with
that, uh, we have a tradition that
619
00:36:51.670 --> 00:36:55.590
we've started on the podcast, uh,
called the Bridging Question.
620
00:36:55.950 --> 00:37:02.910
So we we want to be, um, a,
a force multiplier for building the
621
00:37:02.910 --> 00:37:08.510
bridges across the, the ecosystem.
Uh, so we have a question that
622
00:37:08.510 --> 00:37:14.110
has been left for you from our,
our former or our previous guest,
623
00:37:14.150 --> 00:37:17.790
and you'll have the opportunity to,
uh, to write a question for,
624
00:37:17.790 --> 00:37:20.990
for the next guest after you.
I'm going to ask you that
625
00:37:20.990 --> 00:37:25.450
question now.
And the intent here between or behind
626
00:37:25.450 --> 00:37:29.770
these bridging questions again is
to really regardless of what your
627
00:37:29.770 --> 00:37:34.730
specialty is or your passion area,
it's to get people thinking about the
628
00:37:34.730 --> 00:37:40.010
government contracting industry.
Um, you know, holistically,
629
00:37:40.050 --> 00:37:42.810
you know, because a lot of people
have great perspectives, regardless
630
00:37:42.810 --> 00:37:47.530
of what your, your niche area is.
So here's the here's the question
631
00:37:47.530 --> 00:37:49.930
that's been left for you.
Becomes the trick question.
632
00:37:49.970 --> 00:37:52.930
Yeah. No. Just kidding.
What would you say or what
633
00:37:52.930 --> 00:37:56.170
advice would you give to small
businesses that may not be
634
00:37:56.170 --> 00:38:01.130
feeling valued right now?
So first of all,
635
00:38:02.610 --> 00:38:07.890
why aren't you feeling valued?
That would be my my initial question.
636
00:38:08.050 --> 00:38:15.730
Um, our value is not and I say our
value industry because now I'm on the
637
00:38:15.730 --> 00:38:19.570
industry and I'm on the non-profit
side and like, small businesses.
638
00:38:19.610 --> 00:38:24.350
Yeah, I feel I feel that pinch.
I feel that perhaps we're not being
639
00:38:24.790 --> 00:38:31.150
considered as thoughtfully as they
should be. What I would say is.
640
00:38:31.150 --> 00:38:34.150
But why are you feeling that way?
And what are you doing to
641
00:38:34.190 --> 00:38:37.750
overcome that?
I mean, we can let people make us
642
00:38:37.750 --> 00:38:42.590
feel certain ways or we can be
proactive and change that feeling.
643
00:38:42.630 --> 00:38:47.710
What I would say is it's not that
small businesses aren't being valued.
644
00:38:47.870 --> 00:38:53.790
It's that the challenge that
people have is what we've been
645
00:38:53.790 --> 00:38:56.750
talking about.
It feels like we're not valuing
646
00:38:56.750 --> 00:39:00.470
them because we're not spending
the time talking to one another.
647
00:39:00.470 --> 00:39:03.310
We're not spending the time
researching who's out there,
648
00:39:03.310 --> 00:39:05.110
who are the small businesses
that are out there.
649
00:39:05.110 --> 00:39:08.430
And from a small business
perspective, and even the nonprofits.
650
00:39:08.550 --> 00:39:12.670
Are we being sufficiently assertive
and, dare I say, aggressive,
651
00:39:12.830 --> 00:39:15.750
to pursue the government and say,
look at us, we are here.
652
00:39:15.790 --> 00:39:18.990
Look at what we do.
Look at what capabilities we bring.
653
00:39:19.070 --> 00:39:23.740
I have always had a passion and
a commitment for the small.
654
00:39:23.780 --> 00:39:25.220
The smalls, you know that.
You know that.
655
00:39:25.220 --> 00:39:28.980
I used to argue that not nothing
against my large businesses out here,
656
00:39:28.980 --> 00:39:32.060
but I always felt that we need to
pay attention to what's going on
657
00:39:32.060 --> 00:39:35.260
with the small business community,
and how do we support them and enable
658
00:39:35.260 --> 00:39:40.540
them to come into this market and
be a successful in this market,
659
00:39:40.540 --> 00:39:43.620
successful for us,
help us deliver mission, because at
660
00:39:43.620 --> 00:39:47.220
the small business level, at the
nonprofit level where we are now,
661
00:39:47.460 --> 00:39:52.020
we are the folks that are innovative.
We have a lot of flexibility and
662
00:39:52.020 --> 00:39:55.420
ability to move and shift,
sometimes a little easier than the
663
00:39:55.420 --> 00:39:58.820
large businesses because they're
actually bureaucracies at many times.
664
00:39:58.820 --> 00:40:02.900
But we have to decide what our
value proposition is.
665
00:40:02.900 --> 00:40:04.900
Don't let someone else decide
that for you.
666
00:40:04.900 --> 00:40:07.540
And if you think you're not
being valued, then get out there
667
00:40:07.540 --> 00:40:10.820
and talk to people and let them
know who you are, what you do,
668
00:40:10.820 --> 00:40:17.220
and how well you do it.
Conversely, I always used to say
669
00:40:17.220 --> 00:40:21.040
this and it sounds so small,
but it's so true.
670
00:40:21.280 --> 00:40:25.960
What was a large business before
it was large? Oops, it was small.
671
00:40:26.000 --> 00:40:28.320
It was small.
Or it was a not for profit.
672
00:40:28.440 --> 00:40:30.520
Because some of them grow up to
become, you know,
673
00:40:30.560 --> 00:40:34.840
profit making organizations.
So find your own value.
674
00:40:34.880 --> 00:40:36.880
Don't let anybody else tell you
what your value is.
675
00:40:36.880 --> 00:40:39.920
And that's true as a human being as
well. But but as a small business.
676
00:40:39.920 --> 00:40:43.040
And what I would say is I don't think
that it's that you're not valued.
677
00:40:43.040 --> 00:40:46.680
It's just that the pressure is on.
There's a lot of pressure in the
678
00:40:46.680 --> 00:40:49.800
contracting officers.
The acquisition community doesn't
679
00:40:49.800 --> 00:40:52.280
have a lot of time to stroke people.
I hate to say that,
680
00:40:52.280 --> 00:40:56.480
but that's the truth.
And so get out there and talk to
681
00:40:56.520 --> 00:40:59.600
them and make sure that people
know who you are, what you do,
682
00:40:59.600 --> 00:41:02.600
and how well you do it.
And that's extremely important how
683
00:41:02.600 --> 00:41:06.680
well you do it. Very powerful.
And I would I would add, uh,
684
00:41:06.760 --> 00:41:11.600
you know, if, if the the question
is also pertinent to, uh,
685
00:41:11.640 --> 00:41:16.360
you know, regulatory changes.
Right. Well, adapt. Adapt.
686
00:41:16.400 --> 00:41:19.180
That's right. Yeah. Well.
I know I don't say that,
687
00:41:19.220 --> 00:41:22.100
you know, uh, lightly, but, um.
Yeah, I mean,
688
00:41:22.140 --> 00:41:25.380
I think that small businesses are
absolutely going to have to adapt.
689
00:41:25.420 --> 00:41:28.460
They're going to have to adapt. Yeah.
Well, let's see what the the
690
00:41:28.460 --> 00:41:32.180
rulemaking does. Right.
Um, but yeah, there have been
691
00:41:32.180 --> 00:41:35.300
some changes in the regulations.
We're impacted by some of those
692
00:41:35.300 --> 00:41:38.260
changes as well.
And and it is challenging.
693
00:41:38.260 --> 00:41:40.780
But you also got to get out there and
tell people what the impacts are.
694
00:41:40.820 --> 00:41:42.300
Right.
Don't be afraid to go tell
695
00:41:42.340 --> 00:41:46.180
people like folks on the Hill,
the white House, whoever.
696
00:41:46.220 --> 00:41:50.020
Hey, this change here's here's
the impact that it could have.
697
00:41:50.060 --> 00:41:53.940
And here's why it may not be
beneficial to you to make this
698
00:41:53.940 --> 00:41:58.300
change. Let's have the conversation.
But don't just sit back and say,
699
00:41:58.300 --> 00:42:01.020
I don't feel valued because
that's not going to work.
700
00:42:01.140 --> 00:42:03.020
We've got to get out there and
just be aggressive.
701
00:42:03.060 --> 00:42:05.940
Be assertive. Fight the fight.
Fight the good fight.
702
00:42:05.980 --> 00:42:08.180
It's the same thing.
It's marketing again. Here I go.
703
00:42:08.660 --> 00:42:11.340
That's it. But by the.
Time do I get to ask you a question?
704
00:42:11.380 --> 00:42:15.300
It's just. I don't know.
That may have to be something
705
00:42:15.300 --> 00:42:18.410
that we introduce later. Later?
Later. I'm kidding. I'm kidding.
706
00:42:18.450 --> 00:42:21.890
No, but I love the bridging question.
I think that's a it's a really,
707
00:42:21.890 --> 00:42:26.570
um, that's powerful because it
does make you stop and think and
708
00:42:26.570 --> 00:42:29.970
and it helps us shape the
conversation going forward because
709
00:42:29.970 --> 00:42:32.210
we ought to keep the conversation.
It is a collective conversation.
710
00:42:32.250 --> 00:42:35.730
It is. It is. That's it.
Well, so this has been fantastic.
711
00:42:35.970 --> 00:42:38.610
It's always great to see you.
And thank you for joining us on
712
00:42:38.610 --> 00:42:40.610
the podcast.
Thank you for having me, Mike.
713
00:42:40.610 --> 00:42:43.330
And it's just a privilege to be
here with you and
714
00:42:43.330 --> 00:42:46.210
congratulations on your job.
I think what you're doing is so
715
00:42:46.210 --> 00:42:48.250
important.
And anything I can do to help our
716
00:42:48.250 --> 00:42:50.810
acquisition workforce out here,
you know, I'm always available.
717
00:42:50.850 --> 00:42:57.330
Awesome. Take care. Take care.
You've been listening to the Greg
718
00:42:57.330 --> 00:43:00.650
and Camille Baroni Center podcast,
inside the business of Government
719
00:43:00.650 --> 00:43:03.930
where Policy Meets Practice.
If you enjoyed this episode,
720
00:43:03.930 --> 00:43:07.010
subscribe to our list and join
us for more insights into
721
00:43:07.050 --> 00:43:12.890
evolving government procurement.
Go to government. That's government.
722
00:43:14.690 --> 00:43:16.250
Thanks for tuning in.
In This Story
About the Guest
Soraya Correa, widely recognized as a trailblazer in federal government contracting and now serving as CEO of the National Industries for the Blind, has long been passionate about developing and championing people. That passion shines through in this thoughtful and engaging conversation about the acquisition workforce and its vital role in public service.